While easy access to guns is certainly an issue over there … does anyone really think that if someone is in a mind (or out of theirs minds) to kill a lot of people, that lack of access to a gun will stop them?
We have limited access to firearms here, but that has not stopped loonies committing mass murder here (using something other than a firearm).
does anyone really think that if someone is in a mind (or out of theirs minds) to kill a lot of people, that lack of access to a gun will stop them?
Yep, as in yes ,it seems to do the trick at least in limiting the damage. The stats bear that out, and contradict it to an extent at the same time. Yes we have had a number of “mass” killings in Aust - mostly people driving their car full of kids into creeks, or bludgeoning them to death while they sleep, but not too many nutcases sit on roofs and pick off passers by with their shanghais.
Having said that, there are a ton of countries which have lots of guns and aren’t quite up to the looniness of the US. Here’s a telling bunch of statistics. The is tenth on the world list of deaths by shooting (per 100k population) but has the most guns (per 100,000) by a long chalk.
NZ is about 8th on the list of guns per inhabitant, yet way lower than Aus in shootings (or was till some repressed Aussie prick turned up with a gun he couldn’t get at home). Which says if the mindset’s right you could all have nukes and no one would get hurt.
UK on the other hand has one quarter of the guns of Aus and one third of the gun deaths (rounded up and down to suit my story), so maybe there’s a correlation. (Lots of knife fights though.)
In the end it’s not about guns, if you have a need for one you can have one in Australia… I don’t want to live in a place where “fear” and “Protection” are necessary daily parts of my vocabulary.
Currently I’m in Belgium, where the massacre stats go back to about the year 90AD, and where gun ownership is a tad higher than Aus and deaths a tad lower. As in Aus, most gun deaths are bad guys shooting each other, and that’s not a bad thing!
Fire crackers are the weapon of choice for accident prone idiots… bit like While E Coyote.
So they will introduce free range road runners in the freezer aisle to save him?
Most idiots are quite inventive and can adapt almost anything to kill themselves.
Yep, as in yes ,it seems to do the trick at least in limiting the damage. The stats bear that out…
That is where I (and I believe the stats) disagree with you. In the last 40 or 50 years Port Arthur stands out as the ONLY firearm mass killing with excessive causalities. Fire has been used to kill more people in mass killings than firearms in that period.
Port Arthur stands out as the ONLY firearm mass killing with excessive causalities.
On the one hand I’d say isn’t that fantastic! So why do we need automatic and concealable firearms anyway. Unlike firecrackers if we have a legitimate need for a firearm we can quite easily get one and a license which will satisfy that need.
On the other hand define “excessive”… these are what I believe to be the stats -numbers refer to “dead” and “injured” in that order - there are plenty of fire attacks and stabbings as well, but the frequency of attacks and number of casualties appears to have diminished somewhat since Port Arthur.
Hope Forest massacre 6 September 1971 Hope Forest, SA 10 0 Rampage killing by Clifford Bartholomew, who shot dead ten members of his family.
Campsie murders 24 September 1981 Campsie, New South Wales 5 0 Rampage killing by Fouad Daoud, who shot dead five members of his family before killing himself.
Party Shooting Spree 18 April 1982 Canley Heights, New South Wales 2 8 Peter Sinfield, his brother Derek Sinfield along with friend Adrian John Mills, armed variously but Peter Sinfield with a rifle, gatecrashed a party and fired several shots that killed two people and severely wounding eight others.
Wahroonga murders 1 June 1984 Wahroonga, New South Wales 5 0 Rampage killing by John Brandon, who shot dead five members of his family before killing himself.
Milperra massacre 2 September 1984 Milperra, New South Wales 7 28 Shootout between two rival motorcycle gangs. One bystander was among those killed in the incident.
Pymble shooting 23 January 1987 Pymble, NSW 4 Richard Maddrell went to the family home of his former girlfriend, shot her and 3 others.
Top End Shootings June 1987 Top End, Northern Territory 5 Spree killing by Joseph Schwab over a five-day period. Shot dead by police.
Hoddle Street massacre 9 August 1987 Clifton Hill, Victoria 7 19 A spree shooting by Julian Knight.
Canley Vale Huynh family murders 10 October 1987 Canley Vale, New South Wales 5 Rampage killing by John Tran, who shot dead five members of a family.
Queen Street massacre 8 December 1987 Melbourne, Victoria 8 5 A spree shooting/murder–suicide by Frank Vitkovic.
Oenpelli shootings 25 September 1988 Oenpelli, Northern Territory 5 0 Rampage killing by Dennis Rostron, shooting five members of his family at a remote Arnhem Land outstation in Oenpelli.
Surry Hills shootings 30 August 1990 Surry Hills, New South Wales 5 7 A spree shooting by Paul Anthony Evers who killed five people and injured seven with a 12 gauge pump-action shotgun at a public housing precinct in Surry Hills before surrendering to police.
Strathfield massacre 17 August 1991 Strathfield, New South Wales 7 6 A spree shooting/murder–suicide by Wade Frankum.
Central Coast massacre 27 October 1992 Terrigal, New South Wales 6 1 A spree shooting by Malcolm George Baker.
1993 Cangai siege March 1993 Cangai, New South Wales 5 0 Leonard Leabeater, Robert Steele and Raymond Bassett went on a nine-day rampage resulting in their taking hostages in a siege in a farmhouse at Hanging Rock Station in Cangai.
Hillcrest murders 25 January 1996 Hillcrest, Queensland 6 0 Rampage killing by Peter May, who shot dead six members of his family before killing himself.
Port Arthur massacre 28 April 1996 Port Arthur, Tasmania 35 24 A spree shooting by Martin Bryant.
Wright St Bikie murders 8 October 1999 Adelaide, Australia 3 2 Hell’s Angels feud (mass shooting).
21 October 2002 Melbourne, Victoria 2 5 Mass shooting attack by Huan Yun “Allen” Xiang.
Oakhampton Heights Shooting 20 March 2005 Hunter Valley, New South Wales 4 Mass shooting attack and familicide. Sally Winter uses a firearm to kill her husband, two children, and herself.
Hectorville siege 29 April 2011 Hectorville, South Australia 3 3 Siege attack where Anthony Carbo murdered three people and injured three more including two police officers.
Hunt family murders 9 September 2014 Lockhart, New South Wales 5 0 A mass shooting and familicide by Geoff Hunt who killed his wife and three children before turning the gun on himself.
Wedderburn shooting 23 October 2014 Wedderburn, Victoria 3 0 A mass shooting and siege by Ian Francis Jamieson who shot a husband and wife, after stabbing their son to death.
2014 Sydney hostage crisis 15 - 16 December 2014 Sydney, NSW 3 1 Siege. A lone gunman, Man Haron Monis, held hostage twenty customers and eight employees of a Lindt chocolate café located at Martin Place for 16 hours. The NSW Police Tactical Operations Unit shot Monis dead, after he executed a hostage. In the exchange, one person was hit by police bullet fragments, causing accidental death.
Osmington shooting 11 May 2018 Osmington, Western Australia 7 0 A murder-suicide, with three adults and four children killed. A grandfather shot his four grandchildren at their home, his daughter, his wife, and then himself.
June 2019 Darwin Shooting June 4, 2019 Darwin, Northern Territory 4 1 Four people were killed and one person was critically injured in the leg in a mass shooting allegedly carried out with a prohibited pump-action (Category C) shotgun. The alleged shooter, 45-year-old Benjamin Glenn Hoffman, has been charged with four counts of murder. The alleged shooter had been released from prison on parole in January 2019 and was wearing a GPS-tracked electronic monitoring bracelet as a condition of his parole. 
But they’ve figured out that they can use fitbit data to stop shooters in their tracks. Oh I wish I was making this stuff up.
On the one hand I’d say isn’t that fantastic! So why do we need automatic and concealable firearms anyway.
I didn’t say anything about the “need automatic and concealable firearms”. My point was and still is that those mentally deranged enough to want to kill multiple/mass people, will find a way even without access to firearms.
You can list all the firearm massacres, fine, but that still doesn’t back your claim that not having access to a firearm “limits the damage”. As I said (other than Port Arthur) it would seem that the use of fire causes the most deaths per incident.
Which is probably why they banned crackers…
Still available in the NT on July 1. Just happened to be there on that day on a moto road trip. We loaded up with a couple of boxes each and we may have let some off outside of the allowed time period. (Possibly even set some off in another state which doesn’t allow them at all)
Does that make me a terrorist?
Edit: not actually “crackers” but fireworks which make some noise and send sparky bits up in the air, which then go “bang!” and sends other sparky bits flying.
which make some noise and send sparky bits up in the air, which then go “bang!” and sends other sparky bits flying.
… into the bush where they light big fires and …
Yep… I have heard it said that most firemen are pyromaniacs by genetic disposition, so it’s only a small step…
When I was a kid growing up in Sydney my weekly chore was to burn all the paper scraps down the back yard in concrete incinerator. I think I was about 16 and I went out the back, dropped a match in the rubbish and walked back inside. Ten minutes or so later I remembered that there was a total fire ban. Raced out the back and discovered that the fire had spread and I then spent the next 3 hours battling to put it out. It was beyond the reach of the garden hose and it was in the days of brass threaded fittings. Beat the flames down with a shovel, raced off to fill a bucket, threw that on the worst bits, back to shovel beating, etc etc etc. When I got on top of it enough it was race to the front yard to unscrew that hose and run it out, back to shovels and buckets etc etc. The race into the house to find the gal steel bush that adapted one hose to the other. Back to buckets and shovel etc. I think it took me about two hours before I managed to get the two hoses coupled together and run out to the back yard and then another hour to get the fire out. Anyway, that’s the only fire I ever accidentally lit, besides the time I was welding some stairs and I found that the garden was on fire when I took the welding helmet off, and that other time when my flannel shirt caught on fire while welding. Anyway, besides those times, I’ve never accidentally caused a fire. Burnt thousands of hectares on purpose, yes, but needless to say when I set fireworks off there’s no collateral damage. I’ve got incendiaries if I want that.